Episode 142

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Published on:

15th May 2023

TRS: Monday Mood

Alternative Realities on the Debt Limit and Paradigms. Debt Limit, what if it was a real thing and not a weapon of mass destruction?

Stephanie (Bell) Kelton’s white paper: https://www.levyinstitute.org/pubs/wp244.pdf

#DebtCeiling #LearnMMT #Neoliberalism #SocialSecurity #Greenspan #PaulRyan #MintTheCoin #Bonds

This podcast is the pocket-sized portable version of our livestreamed show on Real Progress in Action YouTube channel.

Mentioned in this episode:

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Transcript
Steve Grumbine:

Everybody, it is Steve the Rogue Scholar, and today

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we are going to touch on something.

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Um, that most of us probably shouldn't have to give a shit about,

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and that is the death ceiling.

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And I'm really annoyed.

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I'm just, let me just be really frank here, really annoyed that

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this is even a conversation.

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I'm annoyed that we have to have it over and over again.

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I'm annoyed that it's used as a weapon.

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I'm annoyed that we continue to believe things.

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In fact, even the deputy, uh, secretary of the Treasury, um, says nonsense about

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borrowing money, uh, the US government's ability to borrow money and and so forth.

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Um, there's a, there's an entire thing, man.

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There's an entire kinda like narrative around this.

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Um, you know, the death ceiling construct went all the way back to World War I.

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In fact, Stephanie Kelton was just on M P R talking about this.

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Um, she got to sit around with people that weren't necessarily,

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uh, straight shooters.

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Um, but the reality of it all is, is that the dead ceiling

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was set up during World War I.

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It was supposed to facilitate and help with making sure that bills were paid

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and paid on time in the midst of war, um, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

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But here's the thing.

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It's a statutory law.

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It's a law that came much later.

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We have a constitutional amendment, the 14th Amendment that says that the United

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States debt shall not be questioned.

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It, it, the validity of it shall never be questioned, okay?

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And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the United States

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Constitution has a higher standing than some random law passed later.

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So the question is, how will Joe Biden approach this?

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Because whether you would think this is real, and they're all sitting there

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really, really trying to work it out.

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They're working it out.

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They're, they're, they're hanging out and they're, they're wrestling with these

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ideas and they're trying to work it out.

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If you really believe that, okay, we'll talk that way too.

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Or if you believe this is political theater and they pop these things up every

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so often to keep us on pins and needles.

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Uh, and then they do whatever hostage taking they're going to do.

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In fact, I think, uh, what's his name?

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McConnell recently said, this is a hostage you want to take.

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Man, it's worth taking.

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There's, there's value to be gleaned from the hostage taking that is

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the debt ceiling, but, If you also listen, I want to take you back

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momentarily to an interview I did with Raw and Gray on the subject.

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And he talked about the statutory limits of various types of debts, the, the types

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of debt limit for each type of thing.

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And there was, you know, bond issuance from the treasury.

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There was coins, which is why you hear typically conversation about

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minting the coin because the coins, there is no debt limit on that

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there, there's no borrowing per se.

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We can just simply create a coin of any, um, denomination and any value

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that we want and simply deposit and be done with it right now.

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Obviously people like Randall Ray have spoken, um, in other papers

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that, hey, this meant the coin things and neat idea to get rid of this.

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However, I'd like to attack it straight up and just get rid of the thing.

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The problem is, is that why in the world would Republicans give up

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the opportunity to hijack spending?

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And also why would Democrats give up the ability to hijack spending when they

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can go ahead when they're out of power and they can kind of play games with,

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uh, the Republicans in the reverse.

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Let's be fair, typically these games are conducted by the Republicans,

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and that could be just the cosplay of the government that they're

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doing, or that could be real.

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My, my belief system doesn't allow me to take this stuff too seriously

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because when I hear elected officials talking about United States government

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borrowing money, I immediately think this person is either fucking lying,

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they're an idiot, or they're a paid actor.

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There is no valid excuse for saying the US government borrows money from anyone.

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It literally is the patent holder.

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It's the creator of a unit of account of, of a inch, uh,

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you know, a pound, whatever.

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So why in the world would the United States government borrow money?

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And you can go through the debt limit history and the debt ceiling

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history and it's fascinating.

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There's lots of neat stories that you can go back to World War I

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and read it on up to present.

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And you can see how these games have been played consistently.

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I, I mean it's really ratcheted up here of late and I don't know that

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there's any end in sight because you know, when we talk about it, it's the

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most plain in your face subject of all time to me, but to other people

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that really believe the United States government borrows money from China.

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There are people that really believe this.

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I'd like to know how China is able to print US dollars to lend back to the us

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but that's another story for another day.

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A lot of people think this stuff.

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You can't shake it.

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And then worse, there's smart people that go full metal, stupid and believe

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that the United States government borrows from commercial private banks.

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It just goes out and takes out a loan.

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And that its credit rating is really important.

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Or also it'll hurt.

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Its chances of getting loans in the future.

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The more you say it, harder it is to believe that.

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It's not like you just complete murderous intent that they

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keep this lie going but worse.

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Your friends, your friends, repeat this, your friends repeat this ad nauseum hell,

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some of you all probably repeat this.

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There's probably a few of you watching right now that are the kind of person

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that thinks, oh my God, I don't wanna pass the debt to my grandchildren.

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Right?

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And so each year the president puts together a budget.

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He submits his budget.

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To Congress who passes a non-binding resolution to approve the budget.

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Now, budget, because it's approved, doesn't mean that that money is approved.

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It's only approved when there's a bill that's been passed

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that those dollars are spent.

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Now the problem is this, and if you go back to the video I did a few weeks

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back where I drew out the flows and how spending actually occurs, okay?

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The United States government has a T G A or a, uh, Treasury's general account.

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And in order to pay bills, there needs to be money in the treasury's general

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account, or at least keystrokes, numbers, whatever, in their general account.

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And what happens is, every single day the United States government

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pays tons and tons and tons, billions of dollars in bills.

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And it also, quote unquote, brings in revenue of billions of

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billions of dollars of tax revenue.

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Okay.

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Taxes aren't paid at the end of the year.

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They're paid throughout the year.

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Deposits are constantly made in the treasurer's general account.

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They're constantly pulled back, but this is all smoke screen.

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Even the T G A is a fucking smoke screen.

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Okay.

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The whole thing is a smoke screen.

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And I'm not saying this in the traditional way that people that

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don't understand this stuff, so yeah, it's a SIOP or whatever, right?

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Whatever, whatever things that people don't understand the stuff say to cover up

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the fact that they don't know what they're saying, those things, we're not talking

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that cuz we do know what we're saying.

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Okay?

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But the Treasury's general account, it's just a silly little thing that

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they use to make payments out of.

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There's no reason that they could not have an overdraft.

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There's no reason that they couldn't do that other than the

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fact that there's a rule on the books that says you can't do that.

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So there's all these little rules they put in place that are like bullshit.

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They don't really mean anything.

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It's like, Telling your child that they won't get pregnant if they put an aspirin

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between their knees and they actually put the aspirin between their knees.

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Okay.

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This is the kind of stuff that the debt ceiling, the treasury's general

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account, all these things are their props to give legitimacy to all this hand

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ringing and all this voodoo logic, okay?

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Of how hard it is and how we gotta borrow money.

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And the treasury's gotta issue treasury bonds out there, blah, blah, blah.

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But what is a bond?

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A bond is nothing more than a savings account.

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That's it.

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A bond is a savings account with specific instructions

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for when it comes to maturity.

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In other words, like a savings account.

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You just put your money in a savings account and it could stay

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in there Yeah, forever, right?

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And whatever the interest rate is, it's 1%, 2%, whatever.

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That savings account will continue to grow in the fashion in which you agreed.

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To take on the savings.

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Well, that is all A bond is as well.

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That's all A bond is.

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The difference is, is that it's, it's got a timer on it.

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Okay.

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It might be a six month timer.

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It might be a one year timer.

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It might be a five year timer.

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Okay.

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And the intent there is there's a penalty to pulling your money out

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before that timer strikes zero.

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Okay.

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And so with all that, with all that, I think it's important to take a

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step back and recognize that anything that we try to do, any possible idea

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that we come up with for how to get around the debt ceiling is missing the

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fundamental point that the debt ceiling, they don't want to get around it.

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They're not looking for a way around the debt ceiling.

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This is why Joe Biden hasn't come right out and done the 14th Amendment yet, okay?

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Because once he does the 14th Amendment, once he pulls the 14th

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Amendment, it can never be unpled.

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The 14th Amendment will suddenly be the way it works, period.

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And you can effectively end all debt ceiling debates going forward, because

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you know that the 14th Amendment, which says that the United States government

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will always pay its bills, okay?

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And if that 14th amendment holds up against this rando law, which it

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would in any logical sense, it would absolutely be the end of it all.

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Well, what happens when the Democrats aren't in power or

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they are in power and vice versa?

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They use these tools as a means of hijacking.

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A political agenda has absolutely nothing to do with actually saving

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the country money or preserving the debts who our grandchildren

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don't, you know, take on this stuff.

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The overall debt is over 31 trillion in the United States.

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Think about that.

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31 trillion in debt.

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Now, what that means in the real world is that we've got 31 trillion and basically

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securities of some sort of, and actually is the net money supply to a penny.

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To the penny.

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It's the sum total of every untaxed dollar in existence.

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Okay, now, The interesting thing is, is that because there are

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types of debts, the debt ceiling doesn't pertain to all of them.

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It only pertains to the United States government sending out treasuries to

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authorize additional deficit spending.

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That's it.

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To bring in cash to sell treasuries, and that'll go into the treasuries,

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general account, fava, blah, blah, blah.

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It's all smokescreen though, folks.

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It's all a smokescreen.

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Now, one of the funny things I heard today, let's see if you guys find

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this nearly as funny as I do, because you're gonna see it ties together

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with an awful lot of other issues.

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If the debt ceiling isn't lifted, guess what?

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Payments can't be made.

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Social security payments can't be made.

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Just that alone.

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I don't wanna take on all the other things, just, just social

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security for a minute, right?

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Uh, if you paid.

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Into the Social Security Trust fund and the trust fund was really a thing.

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You wouldn't have to worry about the treasury and the debt ceiling

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to make treasury bill payments of Social Security, but you'd have to

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be thinking to get this part, your brain would have to be operational.

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It would have to have sparked synapses firing.

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There'd have to be light behind the eyes to see this, okay?

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Most people, the candles turned off completely.

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Okay.

Steve Grumbine:

Once again, each of these stories is a lie.

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It's all a lie, right?

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Yes.

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There is a law in the books about the debt ceiling, about, which was,

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like I said, brought about during World War I, but it's a farce.

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So when they talked about minting the trillion dollar coin, As a workaround

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around the debt seal, let's assume they really, truly want a workaround this way.

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Okay?

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They would take a coin, maybe it's this small, maybe it's this pig rolling it

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down the road and deposit it at the Fed.

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Who would then in turn markup the treasury's general account and they would

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never have to worry about any of these issues with overpayments or underpayments

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or not having enough cash to clear.

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Cuz every year the, you know, you have that resolution for what the

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budget is every year it's set.

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Every year they agree to a certain amount that they'll pay.

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Well the depositing the trillion dollar coin in there literally is absurd enough

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to block out any of this nonsense.

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Okay.

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So I'm, before I start taking questions, cuz I'm seeing some

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questions in the, in the chat, let me just finish what I'm seeing here.

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So you watched as Paul Ryan and, uh, Alan Greenspan years ago fought about

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the solvency of the, uh, uh, what do you want to call this, uh, the

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solvency of the Social security system.

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And you know, when you realize that even Alan Greenspan, who was Reagan's guy who

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was Clinton's guy, I mean, this is a guy who's the, one of the worst people on

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the planet, neoliberal to the extreme.

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Okay?

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Not above any kind of shitty shenanigans, but he had the ultimate.

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Actual act of honesty as he pushed back against Paul Ryan.

Steve Grumbine:

Um, I think I may actually have the video of this.

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Let me see if I have the video still on him.

Steve Grumbine:

I do have the video on hand.

Steve Grumbine:

Let's go ahead and watch this together real quick.

Paul Ryan:

So, having personal retirement accounts is a, is another way of

Paul Ryan:

making a, a future retiree benefits more secure for their retirement.

Paul Ryan:

And also, do you believe that personal retirement accounts as a

Paul Ryan:

component to a system to solvency does help improve solvency?

Paul Ryan:

Because when you have a personal retirement account policy, it,

Paul Ryan:

it's a company with a benefit offset with that feature in place.

Paul Ryan:

Do you believe that personal retirement accounts can help us achieve solvency

Paul Ryan:

for the system and make those future retiree benefits more secure?

Alan Greenspan:

Well, I, I wouldn't say that the, uh, pay as you go benefits

Alan Greenspan:

are insecure in the sense that, uh, There's nothing to prevent the federal

Alan Greenspan:

government from creating as much money as it wants and paying it to somebody.

Alan Greenspan:

The question is, how do you set up a system which assures that the

Alan Greenspan:

real assets are created, which those benefits are employed to purchase?

Alan Greenspan:

So it's not a question of security, it's a question of the structure of a

Alan Greenspan:

financial system, which assures that the real resources are created for

Alan Greenspan:

retirement as distinct from the cash.

Alan Greenspan:

The cash itself is nice to have, but uh, it's got to be in the context of

Alan Greenspan:

the real resources being created at the time those benefits are paid so that

Alan Greenspan:

you can purchase real resources with the benefits, which of course are cash.

Alan Greenspan:

Mm-hmm.

Steve Grumbine:

Anyway, I'd never get tired of seeing Paul Ryan

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go, Uhhuh, uhhuh, like, like just the hilariousness of it all.

Steve Grumbine:

It, it, it, it's beyond comedy, right?

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So here's the deal.

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I'm gonna go up here and answer a few questions that came up here.

Steve Grumbine:

Carpe DM says, Steve, how much would it matter if China cashed out?

Steve Grumbine:

20%, 40%, 90%, a hundred percent of its secure treasuries.

Steve Grumbine:

Not at all.

Steve Grumbine:

All right, let's talk about this for just a second.

Steve Grumbine:

And, and, and it's very frustrating cuz as you know, There's a lot of

Steve Grumbine:

folks out there who had a problem with a lot of people regarding Ivermectin

Steve Grumbine:

and Fauci and all that stuff.

Steve Grumbine:

So instead of agreeing to disagree on vaccines, they went the full Monty and

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they listened to trash platforms that pump up nonsense about China and Dad and

Steve Grumbine:

Bitcoin and other things I see out there.

Steve Grumbine:

I know who you are.

Steve Grumbine:

I know the people out there that gave up on real honest reporting and went off and

Steve Grumbine:

chased these people and said, ah, I can put up with every other lie they tell.

Steve Grumbine:

As long as they tell me good things about Ivermectin.

Steve Grumbine:

I see you.

Steve Grumbine:

I know who you are, you.

Steve Grumbine:

Your Ivermectin moment is over, but the rest of this debt stuff you fucked us on.

Steve Grumbine:

It's here to stay, baby, all because you sold out for a Ivermectin deal.

Steve Grumbine:

It's gone.

Steve Grumbine:

It's over.

Steve Grumbine:

It's done.

Steve Grumbine:

But not the debt and not all the shit we've gotta deal with because of it and

Steve Grumbine:

because you gave rise to these shitty platforms that pump up all this nonsense.

Steve Grumbine:

About debt deficits, China and all the other crap.

Steve Grumbine:

Well, we're fucked now.

Steve Grumbine:

Thank you.

Steve Grumbine:

Give yourself a round of applause.

Steve Grumbine:

Pat yourself on the back.

Steve Grumbine:

Sure.

Steve Grumbine:

Joe Rogan and others congratulate you for that.

Steve Grumbine:

All right.

Steve Grumbine:

That's said.

Steve Grumbine:

Put my gun back in my holster here for a moment.

Steve Grumbine:

When I think about China, China literally sells huge amounts of goods

Steve Grumbine:

and services into the United States.

Steve Grumbine:

And when China sells goods and services into the United

Steve Grumbine:

States, it receives US dollars.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay?

Steve Grumbine:

It receives US dollars.

Steve Grumbine:

Now, what it does with those dollars is another thing altogether, because

Steve Grumbine:

it's still gotta be able to facilitate transactions done in US dollars.

Steve Grumbine:

If they sell off all their treasuries, it's just gonna

Steve Grumbine:

make it harder to do business.

Steve Grumbine:

Nothing more than that.

Steve Grumbine:

Warren Moses says, all we owe China is a bank statement.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay?

Steve Grumbine:

Now ask yourself the safest investment bar none is United States treasuries.

Steve Grumbine:

There's nowhere in the world you can put your money.

Steve Grumbine:

Regardless of this debt ceiling stuff, there is nowhere in the world that

Steve Grumbine:

you can put your money safer than in the United States treasuries period.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay?

Steve Grumbine:

Now, part of the problem here is, is that if that if we don't pay our bills,

Steve Grumbine:

it will rock the confidence in the dollar, and people may not wanna buy

Steve Grumbine:

treasuries and blah, blah, blah, right?

Steve Grumbine:

Well, if you listen to M M T or at all, and you should maybe not on

Steve Grumbine:

all their political stuff, but you should definitely understand it in

Steve Grumbine:

terms of the legal framework and in terms of the monetary system.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay?

Steve Grumbine:

With that in mind, you gotta understand that China.

Steve Grumbine:

Has to do business with us or they don't.

Steve Grumbine:

If they choose not to do business with us, we would find a replacement.

Steve Grumbine:

They would find a replacement to do business with.

Steve Grumbine:

We would find a replacement.

Steve Grumbine:

But one of the reasons why China is not like a great place to store your

Steve Grumbine:

money, save your money in China.

Steve Grumbine:

Cause they don't have a robust finance system.

Steve Grumbine:

That's not good.

Steve Grumbine:

It's quite frankly, I'd love to get rid of all this finance all together.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay.

Steve Grumbine:

I'm tired of Wall Street, but the people that have faith in the dollar confidence,

Steve Grumbine:

ain't you and I, you and I don't have a say so in what we do, you and I go to the

Steve Grumbine:

store and we buy whatever we have to buy.

Steve Grumbine:

We buy it with whatever we have in our pocket.

Steve Grumbine:

But these are the countries that big investors and stuff like that, the

Steve Grumbine:

ones that you're worried about having confidence, you know your rich people

Steve Grumbine:

that you're always complaining about, oh, I wonder if this rich oligarch

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has a confidence in the dollar.

Steve Grumbine:

I really care what that rich oligarch does.

Steve Grumbine:

Right?

Steve Grumbine:

Assuming for a minute that.

Steve Grumbine:

They wanted to get away from the us.

Steve Grumbine:

There's no safer place to put your money than in the us.

Steve Grumbine:

Now, Biden and others have done a hell of a job of shaking that confidence by

Steve Grumbine:

cutting off Russia from the Swift system that certainly didn't do any favors, okay?

Steve Grumbine:

Certainly did not do any favors.

Steve Grumbine:

However, however, it's important to understand that it wouldn't do shit.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay?

Steve Grumbine:

Somebody's gonna take those dollars, and if not the US, just write it down.

Steve Grumbine:

It's not a big deal at all.

Steve Grumbine:

That's their savings account.

Steve Grumbine:

That's the Chinese savings account.

Steve Grumbine:

If they don't want that, who cares?

Steve Grumbine:

We'll sell those bonds to someone else, okay?

Steve Grumbine:

They'll sell those goods to someone else.

Steve Grumbine:

They don't, it doesn't matter.

Steve Grumbine:

And then let's just say hypothetically, no one else will buy the US debt.

Steve Grumbine:

In other words, they won't buy any more US bonds cuz they've lost confidence.

Steve Grumbine:

Whatever trash you hear out there, fucking flush it.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay?

Steve Grumbine:

The real deal is the US buys its own debt up, just like

Steve Grumbine:

Japan bought its own debt up.

Steve Grumbine:

Why?

Steve Grumbine:

Because it's not really debt folks.

Steve Grumbine:

You wanna stop seeing debt, stop selling bonds, you wanna stop selling bonds?

Steve Grumbine:

Well, you better be prepared for all the pension plans that rely

Steve Grumbine:

on bonds to keep them steady, even in good times and bad times.

Steve Grumbine:

You know, it's like, you know when you get your own personal investment

Steve Grumbine:

portfolio, you have a certain small amount, and I'm saying this for people

Steve Grumbine:

that have 401ks and stuff that you.

Steve Grumbine:

You work at Walmart, they provide you with a 401K at this point.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay?

Steve Grumbine:

I'm not saying everybody has one.

Steve Grumbine:

This is still elite world here, but most people when they go into a job and they

Steve Grumbine:

get hired and they're not a contractor, have access to some sort of savings plan.

Steve Grumbine:

Within that savings plan, it tells you the breakup of all the different investments.

Steve Grumbine:

Are you old?

Steve Grumbine:

If you're old, you may want to take a much more safe way, which they

Steve Grumbine:

would dump it a lot of it into bonds.

Steve Grumbine:

If you're young and you have risk, you might dump it into some risk.

Steve Grumbine:

Your more perspective type investments, whatever.

Steve Grumbine:

So there's this whole pie chart of how your investments are broken out.

Steve Grumbine:

We don't need, we collectively don't need to finance our pensions with bonds.

Steve Grumbine:

We could literally make it a point that the federal government takes all those

Steve Grumbine:

pension plans on period, fully funds them, could do anything, could literally do it.

Steve Grumbine:

Dollar for dollar.

Steve Grumbine:

It could even fund it more than it's doing now.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay.

Steve Grumbine:

But because we can't fucking get out of our own way and we can't use

Steve Grumbine:

our brains, this brain's in short supply these days, apparently we're

Steve Grumbine:

content with this bond situation.

Steve Grumbine:

And those bonds are important elements to pensioners and savings

Steve Grumbine:

accounts and people that are saving for retirement, IRAs, whatever.

Steve Grumbine:

Very, very important, especially for folks, older folks that are really coming

Steve Grumbine:

close to the end of their working lives or productive lives in terms of making money.

Steve Grumbine:

And now they've gotta find a way to survive the last

Steve Grumbine:

20, 30 years of their life.

Steve Grumbine:

And so these are the ways they do it, but even that could be directly

Steve Grumbine:

funded without this mirage of bonds, the need for bonds and all this crap.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay.

Steve Grumbine:

The government sells bonds.

Steve Grumbine:

They sell bonds to defend a positive interest rate.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay, well that interest rate could be set to permanent zero.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay.

Steve Grumbine:

Could be set to permanent zero.

Steve Grumbine:

And as Randy raise says, we could stop selling bonds altogether.

Steve Grumbine:

Now you could have Federal reserve notes that are turned into bonds.

Steve Grumbine:

You conf fed could sell bonds to people, others could sell bonds to me, and they

Steve Grumbine:

can make a decision to pay a certain amount of interest for those bonds.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay.

Steve Grumbine:

Somebody just said something and I'm gonna repeat.

Steve Grumbine:

I'm gonna say something.

Steve Grumbine:

It really is highly offensive when, when I see someone say this, okay,

Steve Grumbine:

you cannot print money forever.

Steve Grumbine:

First of all, just don't say these things.

Steve Grumbine:

I'm giving you permission to back away.

Steve Grumbine:

I'm not gonna make this a long point because I'm assuming you just

Steve Grumbine:

don't understand what you're saying.

Steve Grumbine:

The government always digitally prints money every single time it spends.

Steve Grumbine:

And every single time it taxes, it digitally removes and

Steve Grumbine:

deletes and destroys currency.

Steve Grumbine:

It doesn't respend it.

Steve Grumbine:

So it's not like they're just filling the thing up and just printing money.

Steve Grumbine:

That is the most uneducated thing to say.

Steve Grumbine:

We don't wanna do that.

Steve Grumbine:

We want to be the smart ones.

Steve Grumbine:

We never want to be the people that say things that aren't smart, and

Steve Grumbine:

that's something that's not smart.

Steve Grumbine:

That's something we've all probably said at some point in time.

Steve Grumbine:

It's something we should never say again because it's not

Steve Grumbine:

even in the realm of truth.

Steve Grumbine:

It's, it's a lie.

Steve Grumbine:

Right?

Steve Grumbine:

It's not true.

Steve Grumbine:

It's a fairytale.

Steve Grumbine:

It's a myth.

Steve Grumbine:

It's a legend.

Steve Grumbine:

It's a lie.

Steve Grumbine:

It's a nothing burger.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay.

Steve Grumbine:

We don't print money.

Steve Grumbine:

We, there's enough money printed to satisfy atm, uh, and teller transactions

Steve Grumbine:

and for people that wanna hold some cash.

Steve Grumbine:

That's it.

Steve Grumbine:

The rest of it is digitally created via keystrokes.

Steve Grumbine:

And when money is spent, keystrokes into an account.

Steve Grumbine:

And when it's taxed out, he strokes remove it out.

Steve Grumbine:

That's it.

Steve Grumbine:

That's it.

Steve Grumbine:

Full stop.

Steve Grumbine:

Anyone?

Steve Grumbine:

No, you can't do it forever.

Steve Grumbine:

All these things are lies that breed austerity.

Steve Grumbine:

The rich never suffer, by the way, they never suffer these things that

Steve Grumbine:

the people at the bottom fight over.

Steve Grumbine:

Yeah, you can't print money forever.

Steve Grumbine:

And the ritual happened.

Steve Grumbine:

They're like, Hey, where are we going on vacation?

Steve Grumbine:

You wanna fly to Paris tonight?

Steve Grumbine:

Sure, let's do it.

Steve Grumbine:

The person trying to get food on their tables, like, God,

Steve Grumbine:

there's not enough money.

Steve Grumbine:

And so, well, you can't print money forever.

Steve Grumbine:

We don't do that around here.

Steve Grumbine:

We, we try to only save worthful things, not things like that.

Steve Grumbine:

So it's no offense to you, victory over.

Steve Grumbine:

I just wanna make sure we get this shit straight.

Steve Grumbine:

Now, if you understand that the debt ceiling is not about

Steve Grumbine:

the overall national debt.

Steve Grumbine:

The debt ceiling is about the annual budget, and that's why there's an

Steve Grumbine:

annual battle over the debt ceiling.

Steve Grumbine:

So when the president passes a budget and you get up to the point of what the

Steve Grumbine:

allowable debt is for that month, when I say debt again, it's selling treasuries.

Steve Grumbine:

And when do we sell?

Steve Grumbine:

Trish, ask yourself this.

Steve Grumbine:

When do we sell treasuries?

Steve Grumbine:

Do we sell treasuries before we spend to get money?

Steve Grumbine:

Or do we send sell treasuries after we spend?

Steve Grumbine:

We sell treasuries after we spend.

Steve Grumbine:

Why?

Steve Grumbine:

Because it's not a funding operation.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay.

Steve Grumbine:

It's not a funding operation.

Steve Grumbine:

So there was a paper kelton put out long, long, long time ago.

Steve Grumbine:

And that paper that she put out was Ken Taxes and Bonds

Steve Grumbine:

finance, government spending.

Steve Grumbine:

And she went through the whole stabs and tabs thing.

Steve Grumbine:

This is a white paper, peer-reviewed white paper.

Steve Grumbine:

I suggest everyone go out and read it.

Steve Grumbine:

It's under the name Stephanie Bell.

Steve Grumbine:

In fact, uh, somebody wants to look it up.

Steve Grumbine:

They can do it.

Steve Grumbine:

I've done it too many times.

Steve Grumbine:

Somebody please that, particularly if there's an admin from the team.

Steve Grumbine:

Go out there and drop Stephanie Bell's.

Steve Grumbine:

Um, uh, white paper in about canned bonds, uh, finance governments, my

Steve Grumbine:

bonds and taxes and taxes and bonds.

Steve Grumbine:

Literally do not do this.

Steve Grumbine:

All right.

Steve Grumbine:

Um, so that's said, that's said this concept is going to keep going on and on,

Steve Grumbine:

and it's never going to impact the rich.

Steve Grumbine:

I want you to understand that these debt sailing battles

Steve Grumbine:

is not impacting the wealthy.

Steve Grumbine:

This is not hurting the wealthy.

Steve Grumbine:

Yes, somebody may get a delayed payment once they, um, once they actually, uh,

Steve Grumbine:

you know, look at a, anyway, I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna skip past that momentarily.

Steve Grumbine:

So, right now the Republicans are holding hostage all the spending.

Steve Grumbine:

They're trying to roll back things like, uh, the student debt support.

Steve Grumbine:

It was minimal.

Steve Grumbine:

Folks, Biden's, student debt relief was like nothing.

Steve Grumbine:

It didn't even cover the interest for most people.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay?

Steve Grumbine:

We're talking about a very, very meager thing, but they're gonna claw it back.

Steve Grumbine:

They're gonna use it to hold it hostage.

Steve Grumbine:

The next thing, the most important one of that is that, quite frankly,

Steve Grumbine:

if we go through this every year, then you should be able to have historical

Steve Grumbine:

record of going through this every year.

Steve Grumbine:

And there is a historical record.

Steve Grumbine:

Most of the times they just simply do it without any fight.

Steve Grumbine:

There's no fight.

Steve Grumbine:

There's no fight.

Steve Grumbine:

But here recently, there has become a constant fight.

Steve Grumbine:

And it's a constant battle because why?

Steve Grumbine:

What have mm, tears poorly done?

Steve Grumbine:

Mm, tears.

Steve Grumbine:

First of all, poorly stuck together.

Steve Grumbine:

They got too many little clicks running off in their own little ways.

Steve Grumbine:

Um, but the other thing that MMTs haven't done is made the case not just

Steve Grumbine:

to Democrats, who still consistently say the most stupid shit about

Steve Grumbine:

their hard-earned tax dollars, okay?

Steve Grumbine:

But it's the Republicans.

Steve Grumbine:

Now, if we were Republicans, let's say, and maybe one of you is out

Steve Grumbine:

there, I don't know why, I don't know.

Steve Grumbine:

But let's just say you were, and you really believe in your heart

Steve Grumbine:

of hearts that the government is taking on unsustainable debt.

Steve Grumbine:

That they're just printing up money that you're printing away, man.

Steve Grumbine:

Print, print money.

Steve Grumbine:

God damn.

Steve Grumbine:

They're devaluing the dollar, right?

Steve Grumbine:

Nevermind the fact that we're not on a gold standard anymore.

Steve Grumbine:

So we don't have a base to devalue.

Steve Grumbine:

We don't have a base to dease.

Steve Grumbine:

It's a free floating fiat currency.

Steve Grumbine:

So nevermind the fact that it's completely bullshit.

Steve Grumbine:

All right?

Steve Grumbine:

I used to say it's real in fantasy world, right?

Steve Grumbine:

If you believe that you're handing off debt to your grandchildren and you've

Steve Grumbine:

been working tirelessly to ensure you don't have any debt to pass on to your

Steve Grumbine:

grandkid, why the hell should the country pass on debt to my grandchildren when in

Steve Grumbine:

reality it's just to pay for Johnny over there transitioning to Juanita, they're

Steve Grumbine:

using my tax dollars to let children transition trans males to females.

Steve Grumbine:

What the hell's going on?

Steve Grumbine:

Right?

Steve Grumbine:

It's like all this nonsense.

Steve Grumbine:

I think I on and they be, well, my, my hard-earned tax dollars

Steve Grumbine:

should not be paying for abortions.

Steve Grumbine:

Right.

Steve Grumbine:

Should not be paying for abortions la Right.

Steve Grumbine:

And so because we have not explained in spades that taxes are revenue, and as

Steve Grumbine:

war Moser says, it comes from the old French word revere, which means returned.

Steve Grumbine:

It was returned back.

Steve Grumbine:

Where'd it get returned?

Steve Grumbine:

To?

Steve Grumbine:

The government.

Steve Grumbine:

Right?

Steve Grumbine:

The government from when it came.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay.

Steve Grumbine:

So the idea of revenue is not the same thing as receiving something

Steve Grumbine:

to spend, it's not going into a piggy bank where we spent.

Steve Grumbine:

Now what happens, unfortunately, and this is where good friends disagree, I'm

Steve Grumbine:

not gonna give it any air cover though.

Steve Grumbine:

I'm just going straight for the kills shot.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay.

Steve Grumbine:

Within the government sector, the treasury's general account

Steve Grumbine:

is merely a speed thing when you're riding down the road.

Steve Grumbine:

And you go through one of those places where they're doing like a

Steve Grumbine:

census to see how many cars cross this lane highway right here.

Steve Grumbine:

And they have that little rope going across and every time you go, goes

Steve Grumbine:

tally's up another stroke, tally's up another stroke, tally's up another stroke.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay?

Steve Grumbine:

We're doing those sorts of things, not only in the Social Security Trust fund,

Steve Grumbine:

but also the treasury's general account.

Steve Grumbine:

In the end, there's a statutory requirement that says the treasury

Steve Grumbine:

cannot have any kinds of bounce checks.

Steve Grumbine:

It can't have an overdraft, blah, blah, blah.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay?

Steve Grumbine:

Cuz otherwise it'd be counterfeit, whatever.

Steve Grumbine:

The reality is, is that it's all bullshit because within the government

Steve Grumbine:

there is no such thing as money.

Steve Grumbine:

There is no such thing as money.

Steve Grumbine:

It's only once it hits the private sector that it becomes actual money.

Steve Grumbine:

All right?

Steve Grumbine:

So within this space, within this space, they are literally creating a scenario.

Steve Grumbine:

Where those Republicans feel completely valid and worrying

Steve Grumbine:

about this unsustainable debt.

Steve Grumbine:

Where ever forever is this money gonna come from?

Steve Grumbine:

We can't spend what we don't have.

Steve Grumbine:

They don't realize that this money is literally spoken into existence

Steve Grumbine:

by fiat, which is by decree.

Steve Grumbine:

Look up the word fiat.

Steve Grumbine:

You'll see by decree, okay?

Steve Grumbine:

From Congress.

Steve Grumbine:

Article one, section eight gives your Congress the power of the purse.

Steve Grumbine:

Now, of course, the laws that they have the power of the purse over have

Steve Grumbine:

to go through the Senate and then have to go to the President for signature.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay?

Steve Grumbine:

But once the legal requirements for passing a bill go through the money that

Steve Grumbine:

was promised to be spent on that bill.

Steve Grumbine:

Was brought to you courtesy of your United States Constitution,

Steve Grumbine:

article one, section eight.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay?

Steve Grumbine:

So this whole nonsense is ridiculous, but you must understand

Steve Grumbine:

that they really believe this.

Steve Grumbine:

So if you don't take the time not only to learn so that you can disabuse

Steve Grumbine:

your fellow Democrats and Republican friends, and of course the worst,

Steve Grumbine:

the libertarians Jesus Christ.

Steve Grumbine:

Is there anyone less economically literate?

Steve Grumbine:

I can think of a few.

Steve Grumbine:

Unfortunately, probably some of my socialist friends are almost

Steve Grumbine:

as economically illiterate as my libertarian friends, and I

Steve Grumbine:

consider myself a socialist.

Steve Grumbine:

So there you go.

Steve Grumbine:

I'm calling you out friends.

Steve Grumbine:

But as long as that paradigm exists, republicans have a leg to stand on.

Steve Grumbine:

Do you understand?

Steve Grumbine:

As long as we give the air of legitimacy to this stuff now, it's not just

Steve Grumbine:

enough to say it's stupid and be done.

Steve Grumbine:

It is stupid and you should be able to be done.

Steve Grumbine:

We shouldn't even have to talk about it cuz it's that stupid.

Steve Grumbine:

But because alas, they believe it and because alas, when you go to read the

Steve Grumbine:

documentation, they've done a good job.

Steve Grumbine:

Winston sitting there at his little news speak station speaking UN

Steve Grumbine:

persons into existence and out of existence and all sorts of other stuff.

Steve Grumbine:

When they do this stuff, they ensure that they, the documentation

Steve Grumbine:

says what they want it to say.

Steve Grumbine:

But if I tell you, stand in the corner, rub your belly with your right hand and

Steve Grumbine:

pat your tinfoil hat with your left hand and out will come dollars, and suddenly

Steve Grumbine:

they keystroke dollars into existence.

Steve Grumbine:

Do you believe that rubbing your belly and rubbing your tinfoil hat created dollars?

Steve Grumbine:

If you do, why don't you try it sometimes.

Steve Grumbine:

See if it does.

Steve Grumbine:

But they could say that in the reality.

Steve Grumbine:

The thing could say until that guy rubs his belly and rubs his head with

Steve Grumbine:

the tinfoil, of course, on there's no money gonna be put in there.

Steve Grumbine:

And you'd be like, oh my God, if we don't rub our bellies and pat our heads and

Steve Grumbine:

stuff, we're not gonna have any money.

Steve Grumbine:

And if you let that stand, that stupidity will stand.

Steve Grumbine:

And because most people don't give a fuck, they don't look into stuff when

Steve Grumbine:

they do, they go to some shitty YouTube channel where they talk about other

Steve Grumbine:

things that have nothing to do with understanding how federal finance works.

Steve Grumbine:

In fact, they deep dive into Bitcoin and shit like that.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay?

Steve Grumbine:

When you do that, you don't create an informed populace.

Steve Grumbine:

That group of people thinks suddenly that printing money devalues the

Steve Grumbine:

dollar, all this stupid shit.

Steve Grumbine:

But we've already had determined, and if you've been paying attention at all,

Steve Grumbine:

the US government says, I will take.

Steve Grumbine:

$1 in payment for $1 in tax.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay.

Steve Grumbine:

One to one always.

Steve Grumbine:

It's not like you gotta give me $5 to pay $1 in tax.

Steve Grumbine:

No, it's always $1 for $1 in tax.

Steve Grumbine:

All right, so with that in mind, with that in mind, keep assuming

Steve Grumbine:

that Republicans have a leg to stand on that they're, it's real.

Steve Grumbine:

Wouldn't you be concerned for your kids?

Steve Grumbine:

Wouldn't you be concerned for your grandchildren?

Steve Grumbine:

Wouldn't you be concerned for the health of society that they

Steve Grumbine:

not be debt slaves to China?

Steve Grumbine:

That China's gonna come to this country with their billion plus and enslave

Steve Grumbine:

us all to work in sweatshops for 'em?

Steve Grumbine:

Wouldn't you be scared?

Steve Grumbine:

I think it's stupid, but sure, why not?

Steve Grumbine:

Let's keep playing the Republican game for a minute.

Steve Grumbine:

The tea bagger, the right wing, the conservative mind.

Steve Grumbine:

And by the way, Democrats say this stupid shit too, folks, so

Steve Grumbine:

don't pat yourself on the back.

Steve Grumbine:

Don't get smug.

Steve Grumbine:

You guys are saying the dumbest shit too.

Steve Grumbine:

So how do we move on past that?

Steve Grumbine:

How do we get them over the hump?

Steve Grumbine:

Well, you gotta get them to the point where they stop believing

Steve Grumbine:

it's their hard-earned tax dollar that's paying for things.

Steve Grumbine:

We gotta change the word taxpayer money to public money.

Steve Grumbine:

We gotta stop calling it the debt and start saying the net money supply.

Steve Grumbine:

We gotta stop acting like the US government borrows from private

Steve Grumbine:

banks and that I'm so fresh.

Steve Grumbine:

There's lefties that say this shit and it disgusts me.

Steve Grumbine:

Stop.

Steve Grumbine:

Just fucking stop.

Steve Grumbine:

Resist the urge to sound like a sig rightwinger resist.

Steve Grumbine:

Have it within you, you, you alone have the power to not say stupid right

Steve Grumbine:

wing things, thinking you're being cute, lefty, you're not a cute lefty.

Steve Grumbine:

You might be owning shit libs, but you're owning it from the fascist playbook.

Steve Grumbine:

Pick a lane.

Steve Grumbine:

Yes, Democrats suck, but that doesn't mean acting like a re thug.

Steve Grumbine:

Thinking the gold standards king doesn't mean any of that stuff is real, okay?

Steve Grumbine:

But you can clearly see there's logic to their thinking in their mind.

Steve Grumbine:

They're the most afraid people in the world, and they're also about fairness.

Steve Grumbine:

So if they've been skipping the party on Friday nights, if they've

Steve Grumbine:

been pinching pennies and making sure that they don't pass debt to

Steve Grumbine:

their children, you can certainly understand their concern that you

Steve Grumbine:

would be doing something irresponsible.

Steve Grumbine:

Creating a government that creates irresponsible spending.

Steve Grumbine:

With money they don't have and that they're taking the hard earned

Steve Grumbine:

tax dollars you made that you purposely were avoiding spending,

Steve Grumbine:

so your grandkids wouldn't get it.

Steve Grumbine:

Now they're taking your money away once again, and they're redistributing

Steve Grumbine:

your money to some poor black kid, some poor trans kid, some immigrant coming

Steve Grumbine:

to this country to ruin our society.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay?

Steve Grumbine:

I mean, think about what I'm saying.

Steve Grumbine:

These parties are fucking political theater.

Steve Grumbine:

If you're gonna watch news, you should have popcorn m a soda ready.

Steve Grumbine:

You should dim the lights.

Steve Grumbine:

And you should trust that no one's gonna talk in the theater.

Steve Grumbine:

And if they do throw something, throw some popcorn at the

Steve Grumbine:

person that's talking during the fucking, you know, announcements.

Steve Grumbine:

Fuck them, man.

Steve Grumbine:

They don't have any respect.

Steve Grumbine:

We're watching the, we're in a movie theater.

Steve Grumbine:

So now you can go further with this, obviously, obviously

Steve Grumbine:

the Icks, I don't like that.

Steve Grumbine:

Oh my God.

Steve Grumbine:

You can almost envision Republicans who probably do this as much as everyone else,

Steve Grumbine:

but you can almost think of Republicans as worrying about the butt sex, worrying

Steve Grumbine:

about all kinds of other crazy stuff.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay.

Steve Grumbine:

Stuff that just icks them.

Steve Grumbine:

They get the Icks right, and they just wanna make sure

Steve Grumbine:

none of that icky stuff does.

Steve Grumbine:

But they also don't want to see people that are hurting rise up because

Steve Grumbine:

whether they acknowledge it or not.

Steve Grumbine:

They were born on third base compared to the immigrants that come to

Steve Grumbine:

this country seeking a new life.

Steve Grumbine:

They were born on third base compared to all the black and brown people that

Steve Grumbine:

were actually come from freedmen, from slave trade, not just the diaspora,

Steve Grumbine:

but literally freedmen from our slave trade in the United States.

Steve Grumbine:

People that were literally slaves.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay?

Steve Grumbine:

And and they suddenly are like, well, why should we give them a handout?

Steve Grumbine:

They forget all the shit that's gone on since we started importing

Steve Grumbine:

slaves into this country.

Steve Grumbine:

And they forget all the shit that went on during reconstruction,

Steve Grumbine:

and they forget all the shit that went on during the 19 hundreds.

Steve Grumbine:

The Industrial Revolution.

Steve Grumbine:

I'll even forget about it today because neoliberalism does something

Steve Grumbine:

to help us forget about all this while we're going to this debt limit crap.

Steve Grumbine:

Naturally.

Steve Grumbine:

Neoliberalism would like a token billionaire black person.

Steve Grumbine:

It would like a token billionaire, gay person.

Steve Grumbine:

It would like a token billionaire president of whether it

Steve Grumbine:

be woman, black, whatever.

Steve Grumbine:

They want those things.

Steve Grumbine:

So why?

Steve Grumbine:

What happens in regular discourse?

Steve Grumbine:

Well, you say there's racism.

Steve Grumbine:

Well, there's no racism.

Steve Grumbine:

How else could Barack Obama get in there?

Steve Grumbine:

Right.

Steve Grumbine:

But then you start looking and you realize the capital order

Steve Grumbine:

knows no color boundaries.

Steve Grumbine:

The capital order is all about capital.

Steve Grumbine:

It's all about people of wealth and means being taken care of, and that us

Steve Grumbine:

being kept desperate, okay, us being kept in bondage, basically is there for

Steve Grumbine:

them as kind of a tribute, if you will.

Steve Grumbine:

We're there to serve them.

Steve Grumbine:

They need to keep enough of us hurting and hungry.

Steve Grumbine:

To continue to service the wealthy class that they cater to.

Steve Grumbine:

And that is how we transferred from a slave environment to our modern

Steve Grumbine:

open air slave environment where everybody can be a slave, okay?

Steve Grumbine:

And they use debt instruments, private debt, drive an interest, traits up,

Steve Grumbine:

all these things to keep us deaf, dumb and stupid, pliable willing.

Steve Grumbine:

And so what does the debt limit do to regular people?

Steve Grumbine:

It does a lot, right?

Steve Grumbine:

Payments for people that are on welfare payments for people

Steve Grumbine:

that are in retirement, social security payments, you name it.

Steve Grumbine:

Small government contractors.

Steve Grumbine:

Large government contractors who pay huge salaries, suddenly

Steve Grumbine:

wouldn't be able to pay it.

Steve Grumbine:

And you wanna talk about a catastrophic event?

Steve Grumbine:

That would bring on a tremendous recession, possibly a depression akin

Steve Grumbine:

to what we saw during the pandemic, except with no intention of solving it.

Steve Grumbine:

Okay.

Steve Grumbine:

That's what you're looking at.

Steve Grumbine:

That's what you're looking at.

Steve Grumbine:

So this Monday, you know, I, I, I came in, I heard Stephanie's talk

Steve Grumbine:

on npr, like I started this out and, you know, I've talked to Ron Gray

Steve Grumbine:

so many times about the Minta coin.

Steve Grumbine:

I'm sure it's gimmicky, but it solves a huge problem, right?

Steve Grumbine:

You gotta understand that it's not good enough to be right.

Steve Grumbine:

What is important is that you understand the motivation for

Steve Grumbine:

why things are the way they are.

Steve Grumbine:

If you think that government believes that it borrows money from China, If

Steve Grumbine:

you think that government doesn't know that when they pass a law, that money

Steve Grumbine:

is just spent into existence, if you don't think they know that you're wrong.

Steve Grumbine:

So what's the motivation?

Steve Grumbine:

Okay, you gotta ask yourself these questions.

Steve Grumbine:

What is the motivation?

Steve Grumbine:

What is the motivation for jailing so many people who needs to stay

Steve Grumbine:

large and in charge, who is desperate to make sure that there's always

Steve Grumbine:

a lower class to look down upon?

Steve Grumbine:

Just have to ask yourself these questions because this construct of the debt

Steve Grumbine:

ceiling is used to great weaponized purposes to keep us from believing

Steve Grumbine:

that we can do better, that we can have better, that we can live a better life.

Steve Grumbine:

It's used to make us believe that there just isn't enough to go around.

Steve Grumbine:

And when there's not enough to go around, you see people do this, they,

Steve Grumbine:

they put their hand around their plate and they give you the stink eye.

Steve Grumbine:

Right?

Steve Grumbine:

You know, when someone has an ounce of weed, they're quick

Steve Grumbine:

to share a joint with people.

Steve Grumbine:

They're quick to smoke it up.

Steve Grumbine:

But when someone's down to their last joint, they're like, what do I do?

Steve Grumbine:

Right?

Steve Grumbine:

Same with beer, same with steak, same with shrimp.

Steve Grumbine:

Whatever it is, people tighten up.

Steve Grumbine:

As long as there's oceans of fresh drinking water, nobody's

Steve Grumbine:

worried about water wars.

Steve Grumbine:

But the more we have to worry about desalinization, and the

Steve Grumbine:

more we see drought rise up, the more precious water becomes and

Steve Grumbine:

different people act different ways.

Steve Grumbine:

Scarcity.

Steve Grumbine:

Is a way of ensuring that people hate each other.

Steve Grumbine:

Stay hateful, stay separated.

Steve Grumbine:

Stay un unified.

Steve Grumbine:

Stay out of the solution space and into the pointing fingers and blame game.

Steve Grumbine:

This is how fascism rises.

Steve Grumbine:

When you have scapegoats,

Steve Grumbine:

when you have scapegoats, when you have all kinds of other people to blame

Steve Grumbine:

for why things are the way they are.

Steve Grumbine:

If these people over here just wouldn't do this thing, everything would be okay.

Steve Grumbine:

Those damn immigrants coming into the country weren't stealing all of our jobs.

Steve Grumbine:

The lazy fuckers.

Steve Grumbine:

Schrodinger's immigrant, right?

Steve Grumbine:

So lazy that they steal your job.

Steve Grumbine:

Gotta love the fucking mind, the idiot mind of the fucking

Steve Grumbine:

people that don't fucking think.

Steve Grumbine:

But remember, there's an ounce of logic to this.

Steve Grumbine:

If the federal government doesn't spend money on the people, When

Steve Grumbine:

immigrants do come in this country, they are taking scarce resources.

Steve Grumbine:

See how this works?

Steve Grumbine:

And by ensuring the resource availability is scarce, it keeps those nado goods,

Steve Grumbine:

those immigrants in your crosshairs.

Steve Grumbine:

Now all of a sudden, you can blame the immigrants and oh my God, the gays and

Steve Grumbine:

oh my God, the trans kids and oh my God, c r t, and oh my God, all this

Steve Grumbine:

stuff plays directly into the fallout of the debt ceiling conversation.

Steve Grumbine:

You don't even realize it, but it does.

Steve Grumbine:

All the scarcity, every one of you that buy into this bullshit of the country

Steve Grumbine:

not having money, it's run outta money.

Steve Grumbine:

Well, it's run outta money based on games they're playing to intentionally make

Steve Grumbine:

you feel like we can't do nice things.

Steve Grumbine:

Because if the government can't do nice things like, I don't know, create

Steve Grumbine:

nasa, well, then we can go ahead and give it to SpaceX and Virgin and

Steve Grumbine:

all these other things to make the private sector look like it saved us.

Steve Grumbine:

Oh my God, fuck nasa.

Steve Grumbine:

We've got Elon Musk.

Steve Grumbine:

See how this works?

Steve Grumbine:

The great man of neoliberalism, the thing that turned me on, one of the

Steve Grumbine:

big things that turned me on to mm M T was that Stephanie Kelton long

Steve Grumbine:

ago said, let's render the rich irrelevant and do it without them.

Steve Grumbine:

We don't need the richest money.

Steve Grumbine:

But see, everybody's so con.

Steve Grumbine:

Oh, we got, we got, how are we gonna pay?

Steve Grumbine:

Well, well, first thing we gotta do, we gotta get rid of the tax cuts and

Steve Grumbine:

the the, uh, uh, uh, uh, and then, then we gotta cut military spending

Steve Grumbine:

because we can't, we can't do it.

Steve Grumbine:

We we're outta money.

Steve Grumbine:

How are we gonna, we, we gotta cut military spending or we

Steve Grumbine:

won't have schools anymore.

Steve Grumbine:

Uh, we gotta, we won't be able to.

Steve Grumbine:

You see this

Steve Grumbine:

when in reality the money

Steve Grumbine:

spoken into existence with a law, whatever, they're not going in.

Steve Grumbine:

Imagine some old lady down at the mint got, well, I gotta get a

Steve Grumbine:

wheelbarrow to pull this printed cash out for us to spend on these bills.

Steve Grumbine:

Just imagine, just imagine that.

Steve Grumbine:

Just imagine what I just said.

Steve Grumbine:

They want you to believe that the government can't do anything at all.

Steve Grumbine:

That it's completely powerless, that it requires private, public, private,

Steve Grumbine:

commercial banks to fund its operations.

Steve Grumbine:

And then I say, whoa, whoa, wait, hold on.

Steve Grumbine:

That's the case.

Steve Grumbine:

Where the fuck these private banks get their charter to operate?

Steve Grumbine:

Oh no, the government, so the government is king, but some dick

Steve Grumbine:

shit fucking tries to do well.

Steve Grumbine:

Banks, banks are subservient, but no, we're gonna make it appear that

Steve Grumbine:

the government borrows from them.

Steve Grumbine:

So banks rule the world, not the governments.

Steve Grumbine:

We can make the government look feckless and impossible until we

Steve Grumbine:

say, Hey, military, let's go ahead and drop some tactical nukes.

Steve Grumbine:

All of a sudden, man, we got the most powerful army in the world.

Steve Grumbine:

Can you imagine all these old, skinny bankers running around as Apaches

Steve Grumbine:

or dropping tactical nukes on them?

Steve Grumbine:

Hey, bankers wouldn't stand a chance because the bankers

Steve Grumbine:

aren't large and in charge.

Steve Grumbine:

It's an illusion.

Steve Grumbine:

They were given a charter by the government to operate.

Steve Grumbine:

I just.

Steve Grumbine:

After a while, don't you feel like seriously, like just smacking

Steve Grumbine:

people around a little bit?

Steve Grumbine:

Just a little bit.

Steve Grumbine:

Not too much.

Steve Grumbine:

You're not trying to put 'em in the hospital.

Steve Grumbine:

You just, you just wanna smack 'em a few, you know, take some salt out and rake the

Steve Grumbine:

eyes, drop the elbow off the top rope.

Steve Grumbine:

Put 'em in a figure four leg.

Steve Grumbine:

Glock.

Steve Grumbine:

Do a suplex pile driver or something.

Steve Grumbine:

You know,

Steve Grumbine:

every time I think about it, that's all I can think about.

Steve Grumbine:

It's just, just a little, just a little.

Steve Grumbine:

Not too much.

Steve Grumbine:

Is it too much to ask to give someone the backside of my hand once or twice?

Steve Grumbine:

I don't think so.

Steve Grumbine:

Why can't I give him the backside?

Steve Grumbine:

It's a back smack.

Steve Grumbine:

Smack, right?

Steve Grumbine:

A little humiliating.

Steve Grumbine:

It's not gonna beat him up.

Steve Grumbine:

Too bad.

Steve Grumbine:

It's a little bruising.

Steve Grumbine:

Go get over.

Steve Grumbine:

I say this in humor because it, it is annoying, but the reality

Steve Grumbine:

is, if the government doesn't pay its bills, guess what other

Steve Grumbine:

groups are gonna be hurting too.

Steve Grumbine:

Since states are not currency issuers, states are gonna suffer as well.

Steve Grumbine:

Now you're not just dealing with a federal problem, you're dealing with every

Steve Grumbine:

state, and as it trickles down, you're dealing with every municipality as well.

Steve Grumbine:

All these groups that are subsidized, all these groups that

Steve Grumbine:

are subsidized by the government, and I want you to think about this.

Steve Grumbine:

Halliburton is 100% funded by the federal government because they come

Steve Grumbine:

in, they say, yeah, we'll do this thing.

Steve Grumbine:

The federal government gives 'em billion dollar military contracts.

Steve Grumbine:

They're doing something for it.

Steve Grumbine:

But big fucking deal though.

Steve Grumbine:

Every last sentence coming from the goddamn federal government.

Steve Grumbine:

Do you think these Republican groups, these rich capitalist fucks, want

Steve Grumbine:

the government to stop spending?

Steve Grumbine:

No.

Steve Grumbine:

But they just don't want it spent on you and I, because if we have

Steve Grumbine:

choices, we might choose something that doesn't involve serving them.

Steve Grumbine:

It's just that simple.

Steve Grumbine:

So anyway, I had so many things to talk about in this space, but

Steve Grumbine:

the reality is, is that this debt limit thing is, is a game, and it's

Steve Grumbine:

a game that will keep going on.

Steve Grumbine:

You guys can stash this, put it in your back pocket somewhere and watch

Steve Grumbine:

it next year when it plays again.

Steve Grumbine:

I'll probably end up doing another stream next year for the new group of people.

Steve Grumbine:

Since people lose interest after a while and they go off and watch somebody

Steve Grumbine:

sell an ivermectin or something, it's time to fucking think about this shit

Steve Grumbine:

because this is what the subject is.

Steve Grumbine:

This is what's happening right here, right now, and you should get confident.

Steve Grumbine:

You should find your sea legs and not be cowed and, and concerned and worried.

Steve Grumbine:

You should be ready to answer all these questions.

Steve Grumbine:

The fact of the matter is that there was a law passed in World

Steve Grumbine:

War I to help facilitate payments.

Steve Grumbine:

Now it's used as a means of litigating already, uh, promised, already spent

Steve Grumbine:

bills that the federal government has incurred, and what they're trying

Steve Grumbine:

to do is make the government not pay those bills so that it can look

Steve Grumbine:

foolish and prove that government.

Steve Grumbine:

It doesn't solve our problems.

Steve Grumbine:

It's all about proving the government's inadequacy.

Steve Grumbine:

It's all about making the government look feckless in it.

Steve Grumbine:

Impossibly, you know, stupid because they want you to have to go to private credit.

Steve Grumbine:

They want you to have to go to private institutions for your services.

Steve Grumbine:

They want you to have to pay a fee, and they want you to

Steve Grumbine:

be in perpetual precarity.

Steve Grumbine:

False scarcity narratives make us all fearful for our lives, make us fearful

Steve Grumbine:

for our families, make us fear every day, and this is what they've done.

Steve Grumbine:

This is what they're achieving.

Steve Grumbine:

It's all part of a way of saying, Hey, that thing that happened during

Steve Grumbine:

the pandemic, don't remember that.

Steve Grumbine:

We can spend trillions of dollars on the whim without spending a nickel in,

Steve Grumbine:

and there's no tax dollars involved.

Steve Grumbine:

Don't forget all that.

Steve Grumbine:

We gotta get you back on page, man.

Steve Grumbine:

We gotta get you back in the fold, man.

Steve Grumbine:

You're thinking too big, man.

Steve Grumbine:

We need you back in.

Steve Grumbine:

We need you.

Steve Grumbine:

We need you back over here, man.

Steve Grumbine:

We need you fucked up, insecure and neurotic and emotional

Steve Grumbine:

so we can control you.

Steve Grumbine:

And with that folks, I think my grine moment is over because I don't have

Steve Grumbine:

anything further to say at this time.

Steve Grumbine:

So I'm outta here.

Steve Grumbine:

See ya.

Steve Grumbine:

I did that on purpose.

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Jules $5
Great show with Momrade! Loved this conversation. You should do more of these - maybe Commie Fridays or something. :)

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The Rogue Scholar
This is where activism & education meet. Compelling guests and thoughtful takes. Weaponizing knowledge, one mind at a time.
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About your host

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Steven Grumbine

Steve is a lot more than just the founder and CEO of two nonprofits and the “less is more project manager” – he’s proof positive that with new knowledge and an open mind, the transition from right-wing republican to far left progressive warrior is possible.